Butterfly house

[Yvonne Wallis]

My future dream is to build a butterfly house and wanting to get all the answers first. Is a double walled plastic house going to get too hot for butterflies? I know they need maximum light but don't want to bake them. Also if I have ventilation with just double walled fine mesh to prevent wasps is this going to be sufficient. It has to be limited running costs so wont have heating or fans but hoping it will extend there living period and keep out the nasties.
Regards,
Yvonne

[Robert]

Hi Yvonne,

Sorry to take a while to reply.

I would go with mesh, but it does have to be very fine, like frost cloth as this keeps out the tiny parasitic wasps (like Echthromorpha intricatoria & Pteromalus puparum), but still allows ventilation. Maybe have a partly clear plastic roof, to allow the sun in.

Depending on the species, you may find that their living period is not greatly effected. But I would expect to see a earlier spring & later autumn activity.

Robert.

Edit;
Mossie netting works if you want to just keep out the larger Yellow & Black Wasps.

[Yvonne Wallis]

I would be wanting fine to keep out all the nasties but as we do get frosts and the occassional snow fall here am a bit concerned that the mesh wouldn't be adequate protection. I have re-thought my plan a little and thought that the top part of the pyramid could be a double layer of fine mesh (either side of beams) and than underneath this about 6 inches a plastic sheeted area that would stop the frosts.the air would still flow up to the highest point above this though so keep it cooler. the vents at the bottom the same but with the plastic covers in winter so it doesn't get too cold in there. i am hoping to get the house sterile before introducing the butterflies and caterpillars so Will be vacant for at least 3 years while the plants are growing and waiting for pesticides to become inactive.

[Robert]

Hi Yvonne,

This sounds like a long term plan. However, it should be a Butterfly paradise when your underway.

I would suggest having a design that allows you to add a solid roof over the cooler winter months (maybe a groove to allow the plastic to be slide in & out). You could do this for the most exposed side as well if need be to keep the cold winds at bay.

Most NZ species deal with the cold fairly well, so unless your at an high altitude I doubt you would need to completely seal it with a more solid structure.  I guess you are trying to stop plants such as Swan Plants succumbing to the frost.

Robert.

[Yvonne Wallis]

Yes Robert, have been thinking hard how to have the best of both worlds with a solid roof but vented, since my last chat. And YES it is a long term thing so wanted to get all the details right and planned out first. I have decided now that I will have to have an access the the top of the pyramid(5metre) I have decided to have an outside stair with rails going over the door way/entrance which is the only square part. stair up to roof top of entrance which will be a landing and then up to about 1 metre from top where i can have that part of the triangle roof section that can lift up and have rope ties to top nobs on stair way. This can give adequate ventilation, I hope and then on the inside of that on the other side of beams will be fine insect proof mesh. I may have to have this mesh section able to be opened as well so if I need to release any butterflies as I suspect the will fly to the top. Wll have to have the latter set in well perhaps with tongue and groove type edges to fit in to structure so it is not easy for pests to get into. It is a big dream but the only way to make this a reality is to start planning it. Thanks for all your help as the discussion helps me to work out these details better, as don't wont to change my mind too much after it has been built. Also do you know of plants that deter insects that might discourage the pests at the door way and entrance foyer? I know pyrethrians are suppose to discourage flies. I am hoping most of the pests will go to the bottom meshed areas when I have the plastic covers open as that's where the yummy victim smells will be coming from.

[Robert]

I heard Mint is supposed to repel flies too.
I did come across some herb website that listed what repeled or atracted what, but can't now remember which one, not that it was very through. I'm pretty keen to see & fine such a resource.

[Yvonne Wallis]

Thanks for that Robert, I have plenty of mint. Will have to have a look on google and see what I can find that repels parasitic wasps,aphids,spiders & ants.
Cheers for all the help.
Yvonne

[Robert]

Hi Yvonne,

I think the design is sounding really good. The inside mesh is used in many topical butterfly houses to cover the small gaps & to keep the Butterlies away from the motors & moving parts for the ventilation systems.

Having somewhere to open for releases is also handy as it's far easier & quicker then having to catch them for release.

Still haven't got much info on pest detering plants. I suspect this will involve some trial & error to work out. But it will be intesting to see what does & doesn't work.

Robert.

[Yvonne Wallis]

Thanks for the encouragement. looking on the net the other day found out that Tansy is suppose to repel Ichneumonoid wasp so this might be good to repel other wasps too. There was a dose of herbs that are meant to repel aphids so sounds like i'll be having another herb garden at the entrance and maybe put some in plants in pots at the top of of my stairway where i will be opening up the hatch. Spearmint is meant to repel ants as well as aphids and basil not only is suppose to repel mosquitos and flies but also attracts butterflies. The alliums,onions,leek,agrlic are suppose to repel aphids which seems strange as I know that black fly seem to love garlic/onions. Apparently wasps dont like spices sprayed on the nests so might have a few smelly harbs in the hope to repel - lavender etc. Have to do some more research to see what repels slugs. went to the Ellerslie show yesterday and asked the "panel of experts" what you could use for swan plants to repel aphids and white fly that wouldn't hurt the monarch caterpillar - they didn't have much knowledge and one lady said just squash them?? I said that was a task and a half as the white fly just fly off and i had heard that killing them on the leaves stops the caterpillar from feeding on them. They gave me a prize for stumping them and guess what the prize was? Stuff to kill caterpillars. They had other things there so don't know if they were being stupid or smart arses. i know i might be able to use it on my apple tree if i get coddle moth but I have been a bit sympathetic even towards the moths since I have got interested in butterflies.

[Robert]

Hi,

One of the garden centres I went to today had about what herbs attrack & repel. It was in agreement about Tansy & said that Marigolds attrack hoverfly & parasitic wasps. I think the Marigolds have their days numbered now! I have heard they are supposed to repel aphids, but still get Greenfly on them & the Orange Orlanda aphids on the Swan Plants. Like you , I also got Blackfly on onlions. Anyway, coming back to the sign, It also said about mint repeling Ants (Also like you said, it repels Flies & Mossies as well). I forgot the rest, should have taken a photo to post here.

Good on you for asking at the flower show. I'm not surprised they didn't know. Good they gave a prize, shame it was a booby prize through! I've always being an organic gardener, so stay well away from sprays. For aphids, I squish, Hungry caterpillars still the leaves. However, it they leave the odd leave, then it's good for the plant.

I usually have several Moth caterpillars on plants & i just ignore them really as they aren'y fun to watch like Monarchs & Admirals. However I like the Soya Bean Moth as it's pretty as a Caterpillar & Adult, but it will defoiliate Carrots & Parsley.

Robert.

[Yvonne Wallis]

Hi Robert,
Thanks for that info. on marigolds. I didn't know that and have them in the house with the swan plants. i knew they attracted the aphids but was hoping it was keeping them away from the swan plants and have been squishing them on there. have had trouble with this little tiny white fly on swan plants in that open house lately and now the folliage semms to be going black and dying off. As there are no monarchs in there at the moment will have to try the dishwash/ccoking oil/ baking soda mix and see if that helps. it may have something to do with the acid in the soil too as they use to be horse stables and full of sawdust on a clay base - even though i have added more soil have still mixed with the existing sawdust which might have a bit too much horse excretions. The plants have been in there a while now though but might take a while before the roots have got in to unfavourable conditions. i have had other healthy plants in there also that all of a sudden the mature plants plants has gone back and ended up dying. The plants outside are as happy as and have put some shadecloth over the ones in the open to protect from the forecomming frosts.
Any help regarding the swan plants much appreciated.

[Robert]

Hi Yvonne,

Dishwashing liquid seems to work, just aviod the caterpillars if therre is any.

The Horse manure should really help the soil, but it there's too much in one place & it's fresh (under 6 months) it will be too strong for most plants (not Nettles) & it will kill them. Manure over 1 year is best as fertiliser. It's similar for the sawdust as some woods, esp pines & softwoods commerically grown as they are quite acid. But if this was a while ago, then the manure & sawdust should be making some good compost now & improving the soil. Adding gypsum will help break up the clay if it's heavy, it's also pH neutral. Lime will also bring up the pH if it's got too low.

As for the cause of the Swan Plants going black, I'm not too sure (I'll leave that for someone else to comment on). I suspect they have sucumb to some disease or have got too stressed from Caterpillars & some other disturbance (esp root). I have had plants eaten bare by Caterpillars & they have come back great (I let some plants have this treatment 4 times last year & they are still growing). I did have one plant suddenly die in the main stem, but the lower side shoots are fine & will be the main part of the plant in future. These things just happen in my book.

Robert.

[Yvonne Wallis]

There was no sign of horse manure as I suspect that was cleaned out regularly, it was the horse urine that I was wondering about. Those tiny flying white flying insects in there masses might be causing the damage as well? The plants weren't eaten back as they are big plants and only had a little nibbled off them this year. Maybe i should chop them back in winter and encourage them to bush up as they have gone very leggy. I have avoided doing this beforehand as it seems a crime to chop off good caterpillar food but now that the plants have got some sort of disease it might be a good time.

[Robert]

Certainly won't harm if it cutting off dieseased branches.

Don't think the Horse urine will be much of a problem after a while, but it would certainly make a difference to the soil. I'd ask Horsey people about it if you know any.

[Ajay]

Hi Yvonne - too much nitrogen can kill swanplants. Conversely, nettles grow fabulously in donkey pee, so Lois tells me (you know Lois, from West Melton). Its her secret weapon! Does sound like your plants have some kind of disease, however white fly (and aphids) will leave a secretion on leaves that goes mouldy. Leaves look splotchy black, sometimes sooty, and are useless as food. If the plants have been weakened by disease, or pests, they may not recover. They don't have a particularly long lifespan. Your plants are in the ground, not pots? If you keep them in pots, the potting mix needs to be replaced regularly to keep the plants healthy and more resistant to disease.  With winter coming up, a trim might help. But be careful - a too vigorous haircut and they might get shocked.

White fly and aphids are always a problem, and raising plants indoors makes it worse. We end up creating the perfect environment for pests to thrive. It only takes one to get in, and they multiple quickly.

Dishwashing liquid is quite good, but wash the plants thoroughly afterwards and don't feed them to caterpillars for a week.

Swanplants like water, but not wet feet. They can suffer from collar rot.

Hope this helps. You still have my number?

Cheers
Vicky